Innovative Approaches to Healing: From Plant Medicine to High Dose Melatonin with Dr. John Lieurance

Dr. John Lieurance is a chiropractic neurologist and dedicated naturopath who’s been in private practice for more than twenty-five years. He’s based out of Advanced Rejuvenation, a forward-thinking multidisciplinary clinic with a focus on alternative and regenerative medicine, naturopathic medicine, chiropractic work, functional neurology, functional cranial release, and many more leading-edge treatment methodologies.

Vitality of the body, mind mastery, and a direct experience of God are the pillars of his practice, stemming from a profound mystical experience at a plant medicine ceremony. Today, Dr. Lieurance will share what that all means, and also what it can mean specifically for you.

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In this episode:

●      Dr. Lieurance’s eye-opening experience with psychedelic therapy.

●      Using transformative experience to create your own definition of the divine.

●      Personalizing your experience to discover what vitality and purpose mean to you.

●      What it means to have a vital brain and how it benefits your life experiences.

●      How the mind operates as a data collecting device.

●      The benefits of ketamine as an alternative medicine.

●      Using plant medicine to drop out of your brain’s “default mode” network.

●      Creating empathetic states to experience genuine love for ourselves.

●      Why an integration process is vital following powerful plant medicine experiences.

●      The vast diseases and conditions that plant medicine can treat.

●      The potential to overcome trauma through psychedelics.

●      The DMT protocol that Dr. Lieurance experienced and the impact it had on him.

●      What melatonin supplementation can do for health outside of sleep.

●      How melatonin interacts with your hormones and their rhythm.

●      Why combining methylene blue and melatonin is gaining popularity.

●      The clinical trials that back up methylene blue and its ability to support mental health.

●      What the locus coeruleus is and why it’s important to know about.

●      The many alternative medicine options to support every facet of your health.

Transcript

00:00 Karen Martel Ladies, on July 10th, I’m going to be in Sarasota, Florida at the Advanced Rejuvenation Center speaking at their Women’s Health Summit. And I would love for you to join me either in person or online. My guest today is the owner of the Advanced Rejuvenation Clinic and is also going to be one of the speakers at the summit. Dr. John A. Larrance is an author, physician, lecturer, scientific advisor for mitozent.com, founder of the Advanced Rejuvenation Center in Sarasota, Florida, and educator to those seeking vitality, longevity, and enhanced consciousness. His interest is in connecting what he calls the three legs of a stool, vitality of the body, mind mastery, and a direct experience of God. Using science and ancient wisdom, he aims to connect these dots in his own journey to becoming the best version of himself in his life. Diving deeply into many healing methods to discover the deepest and most profound means to activate cellular energy, such as with melatonin, methylene blue, and NAD+, as well as fasting with various nutrients to activate responses. Dr. John explores many new paths in the healthcare world with his unique and fresh ideas using various delivery systems such as suppositories and nasal sprays and various protocols he has created. And today we are going to talk about a couple of these different treatments and maybe how they could help you. So welcome Dr. John to the podcast.

01:40 Dr. John Lieurance Oh, thank you, Karen. What a great introduction.

01:43 Karen Martel Happy to be here. Yes. Okay. Just explain, I love the three legs of a stool, vitality of the body, mind mastery, and a direct experience of God. Where does that come from?

01:57 Dr. John Lieurance Explain that. Well, I’m glad you asked. I had a very profound mystical experience and it happened to be during a plant medicine ceremony. And this was about five years ago now. And I was invited to, there’s a group that was at the time in Nashville and they were kind of a group under Rick Doblin and he is kind of one of the founders of psychedelic therapy. And so they had designed a protocol that they were having a lot of success with and I was invited out there and it was just incredible. And what I experienced was just a knowing of God, I guess, you know, the easiest way to say it. It was an experience of oneness, an experience of being connected to everything. I had what felt like communication with angels and what downloads and information and some of at the time, some of that information seemed really crazy, you know, and it’s all come true. And so I see a lot of religious groups where there’s someone out in front of the group telling people about what is God and what is creation and what is the divine and they’re feeding them like this is what, you know, come to me and I’m going to share with you and I’m your portal to gain access where if people could for themselves really experience what I experienced, it’s transformational. And I feel like that component makes such a big difference that about each individual achieving their ultimate state of vitality and purpose and meaning in life and having a vital body, particularly a vital brain, right, a vital nervous system, because when your brain’s working, you’re happier, right? You can you can sort things out. You treat other people better. And and that’s important. And so then the other leg of the stool is I call it identity. So it’s vitality, identity and divinity. Right. And so with regards to identity, it’s it’s kind of working with the mind. So often we get confused and we we think that we are our mind. Right. And our mind is just basically a device. And it’s not it’s, you know, we’re it’s creating thoughts and we’re getting emotions and we have relationships and we have experiences. And these are all just data points that are stored in the brain. And it’s not actually who you are. You’re actually the witness. You know, you’re that part of you that’s untouched. And and so changing the identity to understanding that can can really make some profound transformations for people and putting all that together, I feel really checks all the boxes. And I’ve seen this make such a huge difference for me and a lot of other people that I worked with.

05:44 Karen Martel Wow. OK. How how do you help people get there then? If it was through plant medicine for you, do you guys use plant medicines in your clinic?

05:55 Dr. John Lieurance We we use ketamine in our clinic and there’s some there’s some groups out of the country that we that will refer people to. And there are some protocols that will be available soon. That are similar to what what I was able to go through myself as some of these some of these molecules become accepted and FDA approved for some of these therapies. But, you know, it’s it’s really. So it comes down to this. This identity component is such a big deal because there is a part of the brain called there is a part of the brain called the default mode network. And the default mode network is basically where the sense of identity exists in the mind. And if we can break out of that default mode network or what they what they say is that the plant medicines drop the default mode network. And when you drop the default mode network, you’re able to kind of like see things in a different way. You’re not caught up in the in the shackles of of self. Right. And all of the thoughts that kind of pull you into this restricted mind energy of of being trapped in this personality, you know, in this mind that that that tricks you into believing that that’s that’s the confines of who you are. And so when we can drop that default mode network and particularly if we can do that and create an incredible empathetic state and they call that like a heart opener. Right. So there are certain plant medicines that are considered heart opener. So we can open the heart and we can become extremely empathetic and loving and look at ourselves from like an objective standpoint where we’re not trapped in the identity of the self. That can be incredibly healing. And and that’s, I think, kind of the the basics and the gist of, I think, some of your better protocols. But, you know, having that experience is not the end all be all. There’s something called integration. Yes. So integration following an experience like that can be really important. And integration lasts for weeks and it can last for months and months. And that’s where I feel that there is an individual, his name is Michael Rice, and he studied the original Aramaic Bible and. And what he found in that, which is the original teachings of Yeshua, because there was never a Jesus like that. That’s a name that the Greeks came up with. His name, his real name was Yeshua. And their original language was Aramaic. And so the oldest version of the Old Testament was completely eradicated. Right. So there’s like one copy left. And so they found it in the Catholic Church had gone through and they were they were studying it. And he was a deacon at the time and he was assigned to go and study this. And then it brought up a lot of questions that he had. And he wound up having a lot of conflict with the church because he was finding things in the in this particular scripture that was not in alignment with the teachings in the current Bible and the way that the church was was was educating people. Like, again, like an example is the word sin is an archery term. And so back in those days, somebody would set set next to a target. And if they missed the target, they would they would yell evil. Evil means you missed and sin means take another shot. Right. But what do they what do they portray in in the Bible is, you know, you’re a sinner, you’re going to burn in hell for the rest of your life, blah, blah, blah, where it’s more like, hey, you’re a little off. Like, try another shot. You’re you’re you’re a good person. You know, you’re it’s you’re still, you know, capable of of of hitting that target. And so there’s there’s just so many there’s so many examples that are just like this, that that really shift things. And so he feels that the the primary message that Yeshua was bringing was this idea that were that were projecting things onto other people and other things. And we have these different experiences like, say, hostility or anger or fear comes up. And we may say, like, oh, my father made me angry or, you know, this car pulled out in front of me and they’re driving slow. And, you know, that’s why I’m irritable. Right. So it’s like it’s projecting on other outside events when it’s actually us. We have hostility within us that’s getting resonated or triggered by this by this event. And so owning that within us and forgiving that is what we’re trying to do. And so he came up, Michael Rice came up with this this process of Aramaic, the Aramaic forgiveness process. And he was one of the first people that really started teaching breathwork. And he was traveling around the country and he calls it still point breathing. And I was privileged to attend the Aramaic and did the still point breathing. And I was privileged to attend one of his events and did the still point breathing. And it was transformational for me. And now I look I look today how popular breathwork is. And he was like such an early adopter to it. And he believes that that Yeshua and the apostles were sitting around not eating bread and drinking wine, but they were they were doing breathwork. He says that the breath is the veil right from the subconscious. So as you do breathwork, you’re able to kind of like allow your body to or your mind to uncover some of those unconscious thought forms that kind of guide a lot of our emotions. And this is interesting. We didn’t really intend on getting on this particular subject. So meant to be stating because we’re going to dive into some really incredible like health related stuff. So the show will not be entirely on spirituality here.

12:39 Karen Martel I appreciate it. I’ve actually wanted to have somebody on the show for a while to talk about this. And I’ve got two friends that live near me, good friends, and they do breathwork and they have just aligned themselves with somebody that lives down the street from me who’s doing ayahuasca ceremonies. And so he’s doing the ayahuasca ceremonies. And my two other friends are doing the breathwork beforehand as well as after to help with the integration. And I’ve been very familiar with this for a long time. I used to live in a really neat place down in Mexico where there was no roads there, there was no electricity. And I was part of some peyote ceremonies with the Weichel Indians. And I did ketamine down there. So I haven’t done ayahuasca. I feel like that’s something that maybe one day is going to happen. But I’m just kind of waiting for that to call me, not me to go to to it. But it’s definitely it can be really far out there for a lot of people that are listening. And there are probably a lot of people that aren’t familiar with plant medicine. But it is something that, like Dr. John said, it is starting to become more and more available and being used in treatments for PTSD. I know that had to me. I just had a woman two weeks ago who said that she was had to go into a mental hospital because she had a complete breakdown and couldn’t get out of it. And she finally decided to try ketamine therapy. And she said, it’s what got her out of that. And I know that Dr. Gabor Matei, he lives close to where I am. And he is really trying to change this in Canada. And he’s trying to get it available for treatment for addiction. Ayahuasca, ketamine, I think, LSD, mushrooms, things like that, because it’s so powerful in helping people to overcome trauma as well as their addictions.

14:46 Dr. John Lieurance Yes, for sure. We actually have another event coming in September 15th. You have to get Dr. JohnLorance.com. We have the events listed there, but it’s Psychedelics 2.0. So we’re going to be doing an event just all surrounding psychedelics and psychedelic

15:06 Karen Martel therapy. Yeah, yeah. It’s a modality and it’s another tool for the toolbox. And I think people should definitely explore it if they’ve explored other things that haven’t worked and maybe they need something else, so try something a little bit different. So was your experience ayahuasca?

15:27 Dr. John Lieurance No, I have done an ayahuasca ceremony and it was a bit rough for me. So that was not, I think, a medicine that really was something I found very helpful. But a lot of people do. It’s really based on DMT. And so the protocol I did, they call the the clarygenic protocol. And so it’s a strong heart opener and there’s ketamine involved with it. And so it’s different. It’s more of a it’s more beauty and love. You know, where ayahuasca is like they call that the tough mother.

16:14 Karen Martel You know, she scares the crap out of me, John. Yeah. Yeah. It sounds very intense. Yeah, it was it was pretty rough. Yes, definitely. One day, maybe one day. I’m open. I’m open. But right now, it’s not my thing. It’s just too scary. Yeah. OK, so from there, how about the endo nasal cranial treatment? So the lady that works for you, Tara, she she did tell me about what that was. And so I’ll have you explain it to the listeners. So I personally was a rofer for 18 years. Have you heard of that? Oh, yeah. OK. So we do our own sort of endo nasal cranial treatment, but with our fingers. So I’m very familiar with it. I’m very familiar with how powerful it is. And actually, I’m having it done to me by my role for this Friday. So my nose is John’s going to do this to me while I’m down in Sarasota. So I’m going to be all opened and ready. OK, good times for it. So, yeah, can you explain? Because I think it’s yeah, it’s I’ve never heard anybody else really talk about this.

17:30 Dr. John Lieurance So, yeah, well, I wrote a book on it. So if anybody is a clinician or somebody, you know, interested in really taking a deep dive into it, the book is called It’s All in Your Head, Endo Nasal Cranial Therapy. It’s on Amazon. I’ve been doing this treatment for about 30 years, and it’s basically a expansive pressure using a small balloon, which is actually a finger cut, and it’s inflated with like a blood pressure bulb. And that’s it’s done specifically. So there’s specific placements that the balloon can be placed in through the nasal cavity and different positions of the eyes, the head, the mouth, the neck, the body, the pelvis. And so that’s all tested for. And I’ve been trained through what’s called the Carrick Institute, which is a very prestigious institute in chiropractic or something called functional neurology. And so I utilize these endonasal treatments, along with very specific neurological exercises and various types of neurological manipulations for a variety of different neurological conditions. Parkinson’s, we I work with a lot of the stimulus cases, movement disorders. And then there’s just a lot of like structural stuff with TMJ, collapsed sinus and chronic sinus headaches and things like that. So I found it to be really one of the most powerful physical adjustments that I utilize, and it it it has an effect on the pineal as well. So there are some really interesting spiritual implications. And so I do work with some people kind of in a ceremony manner as well with expanding and releasing the connective tissues within and around the the cranium and the brain. And it improves the cerebral spinal fluid around the brain and spinal cord. And and and some people have some pretty profound. It drops the default mode network. So we kind of talked about plant medicine. And I kind of get into this with my book because there’s there’s a connection with this whole default default mode network through the trigeminal nucleus. And and so it’s quite fascinating when you look at the influence of nasal breathing and how it paces these different this different these different aspects of neurology in the brain. So opening up the airways, having more oxygen flow, having that air activate through its respiratory paces. Improving cerebral spinal fluid flow, realigning the jaw, freeing up the pineal. All of those things happen with this one treatment.

20:32 Karen Martel Yes. And we did it in the Rolfing series with our fingers, but opening up the nasal passage. And it was the best way to the woman that created Rolfing, Ida Rolf. She said it was the best way to adjust C1 and C2 in the neck and that you would see like the before and after pictures of people’s head and how it would just kind of come back on top of their body from being pushed forward. And and when I was pregnant and I couldn’t take any ibuprofen and I get chronic migraines. And so when I was pregnant, I used to sit there and give myself that session and put my finger in my nose and adjust my my neck by doing it like that. And it would work every time.

21:16 Dr. John Lieurance I would get my headache. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I I’ve been using the balloons for so long and I’ve heard that there’s techniques with the finger, but I I can’t. I’ve got fat fingers, so I don’t think I could even get my finger in anybody’s nose.

21:31 Karen Martel Hey, the first time I had it was with from a guy with a fat finger. So, yeah, well, you do. You felt like your nostril was getting like inflated. Maybe I’ll do it to you when I’m down there and you can experience it with hands, not a balloon. Yeah, very powerful. It is. It’s very powerful. Very emotional for people. I think that one was really emotional.

21:56 Dr. John Lieurance Let’s do it on Cindy. OK, sure. Or Mindy.

22:02 Karen Martel Mindy, you want to do it on Mindy? OK. Yeah. I’m sure she’ll be really thrilled. Hey, Mindy, I’m going to put my finger up your nose. So, yes, I’m I’m looking forward to it. I think that’ll be great. I’ve had been having cervical migraines for months on end, so I feel like that will be very helpful for that.

22:22 Dr. John Lieurance Oh, yes. Yeah, I think I’ve got Cindy Stein coming in and Cindy Stein is a doctor of physical therapy. Yeah. And she’s been doing balloons for, I think, not as long as me, but like 15 years, and she teaches her own technique and she’s really fascinating. But I I’ve been messaging back and forth with her. And I said, why don’t you come out and like, we’ll we’ll do balloons on people together and we’ll have a good time.

22:51 Karen Martel And so it looks like she’ll be here as well. Right on. Yeah, I’m really looking forward to it. It’s going to be good. OK. Melatonin. So it’s a hormone that I’ve actually not talked about on this. And I’ve talked about all the other hormones. But melatonin is goes far beyond sleep. And we always just associate melatonin with sleep. And that’s what it’s good for. And that’s it. Yeah. And it’s so much more than that.

23:18 Dr. John Lieurance So much more. I’ve written a whole book on it. Yeah. So let’s talk about melatonin. Well, I mean, I there’s so much to talk about, but you I know you focus on hormones. So I figured maybe we could touch on the influence of melatonin on hormones.

23:33 Karen Martel Yes, I have that down. Exactly.

23:35 Dr. John Lieurance So so the the really interesting like, OK, so for men, it seems to be like a really, really great treatment for Edie. So you primarily have been listening to this. So this would be maybe some good information to pass on to their their loved ones. Right. But they’ve done studies and they actually did this study with with with rodents and they did a spinal cord injury. And these rodents had all had erectile dysfunction from the injury that they that they did. And so then they they use melatonin and they found that it reversed the the Edie with these with these rodents. And so what’s really interesting that there’s been other studies where they’ve they’ve looked at Edie with with melatonin and the the challenge. And obviously, women have a similar thing because the clitoris also gets erect, you know, for having, you know, a proper, you know, sexual experience. So this kind of applies to both. And so testosterone is kind of the driver for this for both men and women. And there’s also an aspect of nerves. Right. So the our healthier nerves, we have more sensation. The other component to this is going to be circulation. So having good circulation is really important. So melatonin works on all of those melatonin enhances the the nerves. And that’s kind of the big thing that they found with this rat. This rodent study was how the melatonin healed up the nerves so that it corrected this this challenge. And there’s been so many studies like I talk about this in my book. I have a whole chapter on on hormones. And we also talk about neurology. And so what melatonin does for nerves is really spectacular because if you think about it, there are certain areas of the body that require a lot of energy. And the brain and the heart are the primary cell that the cells in those in those organs require a tremendous amount of energy. And so there’s a very dense population of mitochondria within these cells, because the mitochondria is where the glucose and oxygen is converting into ATP. So this is the energy that those cells need in order to to function and run. And so there’s literally some cells in the brain that have like up to two million mitochondria per cell. The average cell in the heart has about four or five thousand. And then there’s other cells throughout the body that have just a few hundred. So since every mitochondria actually uses, utilizes melatonin to to support its energy, because it’s the primary antioxidant, it’s not just for sleep. The melatonin is something that helps us deal with stress and it allows your mitochondria to express and produce energy. So it’s literally at the core of our life force. So that life force is going to drive cardiovascular health and it’s going to drive neurological health. And so therefore, the impact that that has on us sexually is massive. And so, again, there’s been a nice body of research showing that melatonin supplementation is supportive. Now, what’s really interesting is in that rodent study that I talked about, they gave them 10 milligrams per kilogram of body weight, which would be like 700 milligrams to an adult male. Most of the dosing that you see happening out there is in the in the lower dose, you know, sometimes two and three milligrams total. So anybody that reads my book or has listened to me in my interviews knows that I’m a proponent for super physiological doses. And I generally will start a lot of my patients out with 200 milligrams and sometimes go up to a gram depending on what we’re what we’re doing. And the the sleep component is usually impacted quite nicely. However, this conversation about immune support, stress, resilience, cardiovascular, neurological, there’s a whole host of studies on cancer. One of the interesting subjects I brought up in my chapter in hormones is how powerful melatonin is with with breast cancer and particularly estrogen dependent breast cancer has been shown to really be supportive with with melatonin and not only supporting and inhibiting the growth of the cancer, but also they’ve found for a lot of the cancer studies that they would do with melatonin, that the quality of life was dramatically improved throughout the process and that you can combine melatonin with virtually every other conventional chemotherapy or radiation or whatnot and have a better outcome and a better quality of life.

29:14 Karen Martel What element in the melatonin is support like helps with that? Like what? Because it’s an anti it’s an antioxidant.

29:23 Dr. John Lieurance With cancer. So what Otto Warburg won the Nobel Prize in the 40s and he discovered the really what’s happening with cancer and what they call it the Warburg effect. In fact, if you read cancer research, often they’ll they’ll they’ll use that word and they throw that around. And basically what that means is that there’s a shift in the way that the cell makes energy from the mitochondria to outside of the mitochondria. So outside of the mitochondria. So inside a cell, you have cytosol, right? So you have like kind of all this fluid and then you have what’s called organelles. So there’s like all these different types of organelles that do different things. And the mitochondria is considered an organelle. So it’s one of those little structures inside the cell. So anything that’s not an organelle that’s outside is considered the cytosol. So energy that is made in the cytosol is called fermentation. And it’s anaerobic glycolysis versus aerobic glycolysis, meaning with oxygen. This is inside the mitochondria. We get about 36 to 38 ATP from one molecule of sugar. OK. Whereas if we make it outside of the mitochondria through this primitive form of energy, which is called anaerobic glycolysis or fermentation, we only get about 10. So. So basically, I’m sorry, we get about four. So it’s about 10 percent as effective. And so if an individual is experiencing some level of stress that ends an inflammation, right, which is all stress is kind of have that in common. A sunburn infection, a toxic exposure, a trauma. Right. We have infection. Yeah. So infection is a cytokine experience. Right. So this is the inflammatory signature in the bone. Cytokine or the inflammation reach a certain level in the body or in a certain tissue, then this triggers the shutdown of the mitochondria, because basically you think about the mitochondria saying like, OK, listen, I’ve had enough. I can’t deal with this inflammation. I’m not going to work in this environment. Like if you had somebody that you hired to do some book work for you and you didn’t have a good computer and you have a messy desk and they said, I can’t work in this environment. It’s the exact same thing that the mitochondria does when the inflammation gets to a certain level. The cytokines get to a certain level. They shut down. And that’s called the Warburg effect. This is what happens with cancer cells. So cancer cells can no longer make energy through the mitochondria. They go to a primitive form of making energy. And then you have this DNA issue. You have improper mutations and accelerated differentiation. And so this this is basically reversed with melatonin because melatonin sits in the mitochondria. And as that stress starts to accelerate, it can kick in and it can keep the energy in the mitochondria. And if you take exogenous melatonin, then they’ve shown that it brings it back into the mitochondria. So you can actually regain that energy capacity back with that energy we can adapt. So we can kick in adaptive strategies, which are our healing strategy. This is the innate beauty of the body. We have the ability to heal, but we run out of energy. We run out of battery power. So we can’t express that healing. We can’t express that vitality. And so the mitochondria is at the core of virtually every disease.

33:24 Karen Martel Yeah. Yeah. Normally we produce very small amounts of melatonin, like less than a milligram or one milligram as an adult. Or as a child, we do a little bit more, but then it starts to deplete.

33:37 Dr. John Lieurance Correct? Yeah, it’s very small. I mean, if you look at the amount of melatonin that’s produced just in the gut, I mean, we could spend a lot of time even talking about the gut and the GI tract and melatonin, but the lining of the gut produces 400 times more melatonin than the pineal does. So there’s a lot of melatonin that’s produced throughout the body. There’s a very small amount in the pineal. And so melatonin is responsible for something called microbiome swarming.

34:09 Karen Martel A healthy microbiome is dependent on levels of melatonin. Okay. So because hormones all work synergistically together, giving yourself these high, high doses, when we naturally only produce a milligram, let’s say, and then you’re giving yourself these super physiological doses. What is that doing to your other hormones? Like, do we have to be careful? I just interviewed Terry Hurtog, who was the president of the North American Hormone Society. And he was saying, like, you want to try and find melatonin under one milligram to take. And he said, and then you would take it therapeutically at higher doses to treat different things. But he said, if you take too much melatonin, it’ll suppress cortisol. So what are your thoughts on that? Do you only use this for treating chronic disease?

35:11 Dr. John Lieurance Or are you like, yeah, take all the melatonin you want all day long? Well, I respect there’s a lot of opinions out there. And there’s a few people that are really down on melatonin. And what’s really interesting is whenever we ask them to point to the research, I mean, show me in the research, there’s usually studies that are completely flawed, like Jack Cruz, for instance. He’s always posting things about negative on melatonin. And recently he was posting about how taking melatonin allows the retina to be more susceptible to injury. And what I found interesting is the study he referenced was based on albino rodents. And obviously albinos have extremely sensitive and they’re also nocturnal. And so it’s so challenging. And so we’re usually taking melatonin at night when we’re not exposed to light anyway. But there’s so many narratives out there that just don’t make sense. And they’re based on flawed research. And some of the original research that really was kind of showing these really tiny doses of melatonin were very flawed. I’ve had extensive conversations with Russell Ryder about this, and it’s very frustrating to us because we really get it. We’ve really dived deep, deep in the research. And it just doesn’t really reflect some of the typical opinion out there in the medical world is just wrong. So let me just break it down. There is no negative feedback loop with melatonin like there is other warmers. I knew that. Yeah. So you don’t shut down your production of melatonin when you take it exogenously. So there’s that. Right. The other thing is toxicity. There’s no toxicity to melatonin. They’ve done studies where it would be like one hundred and fifty thousand milligrams to an adult. Right. And then they stopped the study because they’re like, there just doesn’t seem to be any toxicity to it. Now, if we want to talk about how melatonin might have an influence on hormones, what’s really interesting is all of our hormones are based on rhythms. Right. So there’s all these there’s timing and there’s rhythms that our hormones are based on. And all of our sex glands have melatonin receptor sites on them. And what they’ve found is they found that with people that have lower, lower amount of melatonin as we age, there’s a negative impact and a correlation with the lowering of our sex hormones. And so there there’s a number of of studies and research that suggests that that link with melatonin and supporting our hormones through supplementing with melatonin is is a good idea and a great strategy

38:19 Karen Martel that’s that’s been shown to to be a powerful way of balancing our hormones. And so have you guys. It’s like the complete opposite. Right. Yeah. But it’s so good to hear that. This is this is stuff that’s in my book. Yeah. No. And it’s it’s good to get both sides of the story because my take has always been like, you know, why give super physiological doses all the time if that’s naturally not what your body does. Like there’s a reason why we produce everything in a certain amount. But I do know, like, for instance, the research on melatonin and covid and how high doses of melatonin really helped covid. And so I used it when I had covid. I did high melatonin. And I also know yet there’s no negative feedback loop. And so it’s just it’s interesting to hear because you would think that giving yourself those high doses would eventually affect the other hormones in some way because they all work together. But have you guys like research have you tested people’s hormones,

39:27 Dr. John Lieurance your cortisol levels before and after and seeing cortisol cortisol is, you know, we want cortisol when we wake up in the morning. Right. Yeah. The cortisol is a sympathetic nervous system. Right. And at the same time, melatonin is the parasympathetic nervous system. And that’s what’s kicking in this resting and digesting. So that’s one of the reasons when we start to supplement our patients with melatonin, their heart rate variability is excellent. So it really improves heart rate variability. And then you look at how healthy that is, you know, with heart rate variability and how that extends life and promotes health and well-being. So we don’t have a problem with low cortisol. I mean, most people are like, you know, they’re overly sympathetic. They’re overly stressed. What people need is they need more support to their parasympathetic nervous system. They need to be able to deeply rest and relax and repair themselves. And so when when when you hear something like that, it just to me, it just doesn’t make sense. We do dose some people during the day with melatonin, some cancer patients and some more severe neurological cases, but it’s not typical. And yes, if you did dose melatonin during the day, there could be an effect on the cortisol, but it’s always kind of a give and take. You know, you have to like judge the risk reward and what you’re dealing with. And, you know, another point that I would like to bring up and you say it’s not natural to take these large doses of melatonin, but it’s not natural for us to be bathing in 5G. It’s not natural for us to be having GMOs and it’s not natural for us to be eating food depleted in vitamins and minerals. It’s not natural for us to be constantly go, go, go with all of our electronics. I mean, I could go on and on about how what’s not natural. So we need something to support all of these stressors so that we can adapt to it. And I would offer that one of my best strategies for that is melatonin. Now, melatonin is not something that absorbs very well orally. And that’s why we like it in a suppository. And one of the benefits of a suppository is that it’s slow releases. So we just full disclosure, you had mentioned at the beginning, I’m a scientific advisor for Midozen and it’s a club based company. So Midozen.club, it’s a $10 membership fee. And so that’s the only way you can kind of get in and purchase these products. But basically, the Sandman is a 200 milligram suppository. And what’s great about it is it slow releases over the basically about seven hours. And that’s more natural in the way that melatonin is released through the body is slowly. And you can’t get that with an oral preparation. So it’s hard to find any supplement that really has a significant amount of melatonin. So for those people that are really dealing with health issues, I think this is a more interesting conversation. Lime, mold, biotoxin illness, autoimmune disease. If you’re traveling, if you’ve got stressful events in your life, these things can be game changers. I know historically when I travel, especially like to Europe or Hawaii from here, it’s just really challenging for me. But I get melatonin on board and it’s just a whole different story.

43:07 Karen Martel Right. So can I get this from you when I’m down visiting you, John? Absolutely. Because my time zone difference is huge between here and Florida. I really want to try it. I think it’s fascinating. And I’ve heard very good things about it. I remember you were on Ben Greenfield’s podcast and he was saying that he took like, I can’t remember, like 500 milligrams or 300 milligrams a day for X amount of time. And then retested his melatonin after he came off of it and his melatonin was totally normal.

43:39 Dr. John Lieurance Yeah. Yeah. He loves it. He won’t travel without the melatonin. Mindy loves it too. Mindy Peltz.

43:47 Karen Martel Okay. Yeah. Mindy is going to be down there too. So yeah, I would really like to try it. So that’s fascinating. Now, something that you talk about combining it with is the methylene blue. So we’re almost out of time, but I’d love for you to talk a little bit about methylene blue because it’s kind of like a up and coming. Everybody’s talking about it turns your mouth blue at this crazy blue color in your pee. Nat Nidam says that her, you know, look out because your pee looks like you’re peeing, you know, some sort of radioactive fluid.

44:17 Dr. John Lieurance But you combine the two. Yeah. The magic bullet. That term was actually coined about a supplement or a substance that had far reaching benefits to the body, but left the body unharmed. And it was discovered, you know, with methylene blue, it was one of the first substances that was shown to be an anti-malaria agent. And so it was approved and was eradicating malaria. And there’s been a number of studies showing how methylene blue can be a powerful antiviral, antibacterial, antifungal, but yet it doesn’t create any resistance by these microbes. And it doesn’t harm the body where antibiotics, quite the opposite, they can be quite harmful for the body and they can obliterate our microbiome. And then they can create these super strains and the antibiotic resistant strains that are becoming really a big problem these days. But that’s not where it stops. Methylene blue has large clinical trials in humans for depression. So what individuals find when they start taking methylene blue is that their mood improves, you feel happier. There’s been lots of interesting studies on methylene blue and the brain, neuroprotection. So it’s very neuroprotective if you’re on methylene blue and you have a stroke or a heart attack, you know, very minimal, less chance of damage. They’ve shown that methylene blue can clear a lot of the tau protein and the beta amyloid placking. And this is something that a lot of researchers are looking at as far as treatment for degenerative neurologic disorders. They’ve done studies with methylene blue supporting something called memory consolidation. And I’ve been just deep diving into the subject of an area of the brain called the locus cirrhulus, which is in Latin, Latin, it means blue spot. And so it’s a small area and it’s in the brainstem. So it’s what’s considered subcortical. It’s behind the pons in the brainstem. And the locus cirrhulus or the blue spot is where we store short term memory. And what’s necessary for us to be healthy mentally and emotionally is we need to be able to process, especially traumas where we have an experience, right? And, you know, everybody’s had this where they have something that happens and you kind of get, oh, you know, it’s like you get that jolt and then you just need a little time to process it. You lose a loved one, right? And time, you eventually you process it and it’s converted into your long term memory storage. It’s integrated into all the other memories and thoughts that you have. And then you’re able to kind of like move through. So with PTSD, people wind up having these perseverations of these memories in. And this is mediated through the locus cirrhulus. And what’s really interesting is called memory consolidation, right? When it so you think about the locus cirrhulus like a little thumb drive, right? And you have to offload that information up to the higher cortex to make room for new memories. Otherwise, it’s like having a party and never cleaning the house. And you have another party and it just gets dirtier and dirtier and dirtier. And it’s all gummed up. And so in order to to clear this, we have to have low stress hormones, particularly norepinephrine while we sleep. And this is another big argument for melatonin to really drop those stress hormones. And the other thing is you have to be able to have adequate amount of REM. So the combination of low stress hormones and a good amount of REM shuts down the locus cirrhulus so it can then shift that energy up into the brain so we can process all these memories. And what’s fascinating is that there’s a real connection with estrogen and women with this through their period, because we think about PMS and we think about these periods through the cycle where there’s a lot of mental emotional turmoil, right? And they’ve linked a lot of this to this problem with the locus cirrhulus, where the estrogen in the lower levels don’t allow the locus cirrhulus to pause and to stop. And so it prevents this kind of like maturity of thoughts and emotions. So it’s really, really fascinating. I’m working on writing a chapter in my new book that’s just all focused on, this idea of taking care of your locus cirrhulus as far as like a strategy for health. Another really fascinating thing, and I’m sorry to keep going on, but I’m so excited about this, is they found that with people with Alzheimer’s, that the locus cirrhulus develops the beta amyloid before, and same thing with Parkinson’s, before it gets up to like the substantia niger in the higher brain areas. And so if you think about the mouth and the nasal passage and the connection that they have with a lot of degenerative neurologic disorders where you have bacteria that can grow in gums and cavitations in the jaws or people that have chronic nasal congestion, there’s a strong link to this also with dysbiosis, right? With gut issues, very, very strong connection with that and degenerative neurologic disorders. So those toxins that are outgassed from these bacteria and this bacteria overgrowth are called endotoxins and they call it endotoxemia. And this enters into the body and it gets into the brain and it triggers an immune response that then these proteins are acting on, right? But if you look at the mouth, it seems to travel up the trigeminal nucleus into the locus cirrhulus. And if you look at all of the things that the locus cirrhulus does, it’s very, very connected to Parkinson’s disease and a lot of degenerative neurologic diseases. So point being is we want to take care of what I call our doorways, right? So if we want to take care of our locus cirrhulus, which is really a big, big deal, we want to look at keeping a strong and healthy gum and mouth. We want to do something for nasal hygiene and we want to make sure that our colon and our digestive tract is healthy. So what I call this is taking care of your doorways or the Ganesh protocol is what I’ve come up with. So Ganesh is the Hindu god of new beginnings or the lord of doorways. So we have a nasal spray that we, it has a bunch of essential oils called glutatate and I’ll share this with you when you’re here too. We’ll have an essential oil blend that we really like for the nasal, I mean for the mouth and then taking care of your colon. We teach people how to make yogurt and then we also have a probiotic butyrate suppository that can be really helpful. We love fasting. Fasting can be really, really good for all of these things too. So yeah, a lot. I’m sorry. So the methylene blue though helps with this as well. So the methylene blue, they did phobia treatment with people and they found that one dose of methylene blue after the phobia therapy improved memory consolidation and they had better support. So one of the mitochondrial function is a big factor to the locus cirrhulus. Okay. Infections, right? And endotoxins is a big factor to the locus cirrhulus. Having your stress hormones low, especially at night where we can pause the locus cirrhulus and then REM sleep is incredibly important for the locus cirrhulus and then you start getting into the autonomic nervous system, right? And doing breath work. That can be really helpful to support

53:25 Karen Martel the locus cirrhulus, especially later in the day. Okay. I got to look that up. I got to research that because I’ve never heard of the locus cirrhulus before. Not a lot of people have. This is kind of like fresh off the press here. Yeah. You know a lot of stuff. I could sit here and pick your brain for a very long time, John, but I’ll wait till I meet you in person.

53:52 Dr. John Lieurance Well, I’m going to be talking about this. We’re definitely going to be bringing this into my presentation. We’re going to be taking a bit of a deeper dive into locus cirrhulus and how it plays into a number of different, well, various strategies in a little bit more detail on how you can kind of hack this area of the brain and improve health through that.

54:24 Karen Martel So I would think too, the intranasal cranial would also affect this. A lot of the stuff that you’re doing is going to be kind of geared towards that. Yeah. Okay.

54:35 Dr. John Lieurance Exactly. Yeah. That’s another way to improve the locus cirrhulus is the endonasal treatment. So with methylene blue, just to wrap it up, because people might be kind of excited thinking, hey, this sounds like something I want to try. We manufacture a bar and so the mouth doesn’t get blue. And so they’re like these little squares and dosing, you want to be between a half a milligram to four milligrams per kilogram of body weight. So somewhere between, usually we find people between 40 and 80 milligrams is like a sweet spot, but you can dose higher amounts if you have like an infection that you’re dealing with, or if you have like something that you need a little bit of extra support, but everybody’s a little different. So you have to play with it to figure out like what feels right for you. And so you take it once a day and your pee is going to turn blue. You take, basically you take the bar, you throw it in the back of your throat and you drink something and that way the mouth doesn’t turn blue. And so the other thing, the other trick is take a couple of days off every so often because the methylene blue can build up. Some people take it for a few days and then take a couple days off. Some people, I’ve, in some of the writings I’ve done, I’ve suggested 10 days on, two days off. Sometimes people are good to go for three or four weeks and then they take a couple of days off. It’s just what you’ll find is that at some point you might start feeling a little fatigued. Right. And so if you notice that the methylene blue is working and it’s working, and then maybe you’re feeling like it’s like not working so much, you’ve kind of look at that, that time zone. And that’s when it might be good to just take a couple of days off and clear out the methylene blue in your system. And then you can start taking it again. And so when you rate with light methylene, red light, your photo, photodynamics, so getting like red light therapy, going into a sauna, going out into the sun. I’m a big fan of intranasal laser, like something like the violet, or there’s other options where you can get lasers and go up into the nasal passage. In the clinic, we even do intravenous laser, which we’re probably going to do with you. You know, we’ll probably run you through what I call the luma blue protocol, where we do about 300 milligrams of methylene blue. Silver enhances the photodynamic aspect of methylene blue. So we’ll run IV silver, and then we actually have a laser that we put in the vein. And it directly activates that methylene blue. And this is really amazing. Like it can light you up like a Christmas tree.

57:22 Karen Martel Can there be bad side effects? Like could somebody have a bad detox or feel crummy from it?

57:28 Dr. John Lieurance It does happen. It’s not really common, but sometimes people are pretty toxic. And we’ll warn them, you know, hey, the first couple of times you might feel because it could be a die off, you know, because it is very, very powerful at bringing microbial loads down. Okay. You know, we see a lot of patients with chronic Epstein-Barr and Lyme and mold. And this seems to be a really powerful treatment for that. And if when people are taking the little bricks, do they notice energy typically when they take it? Unless they’re taking too much. I tell you, if I have somebody that comes to me and they’re like, hey, listen, I want to take something and I really want to impress them. This is like at the top of my list, like try this because very commonly I get reports back. Like I love this stuff. And yeah.

58:24 Karen Martel So, okay. Oh, this is exciting. I can’t wait to try everything. I actually wasn’t going to do that treatment because I was like, what if I like something, you know, negative happens and then I got to go do my talk. So I’ve gotten a little bit nervous, but I think you’ve convinced me

58:39 Dr. John Lieurance otherwise. So we’ll see. Yeah. Well, you know, we can, we can just feel into it. Intuitively when you’re here and I have a very intuitive guide. So if I’ll, we can maybe muscle test you for it. You know, the alternative would be we can run some ozone on you as well, which is a little bit more, less potential for a Herxheimer reaction.

59:06 Karen Martel Okay. Well, I’ll put my trust in you to decide. How about that? When I’m down there. Okay. Okay. Awesome. Okay. Well, thank you very much. And everybody that’s listening, be sure to check out the women’s health summit and it is available on to be streamed, right? Yes. Yes. So you don’t, if you can’t make it there in person, which I really hope you can, but if you can’t, then be sure to still register so that you can stream it. Cause I think it’s going to be pretty

59:36 Dr. John Lieurance fantastic. Thank you very much. Yeah. It’s in Sarasota, Florida. So we’re on the, we’re on the Gulf coast, right? We’re about an hour south. Gorgeous place. We have an international airport just right, like literally 10 minutes from the clinic and we have a beautiful event center. We have VIP tickets that are for sale for people want to come in like a day or two early, and they want to run some of these amazing protocols. We’ve, we’ve got a few of those, those seats left, or if you want to, like you said, you want to attend it live live stream, it’ll be live streamed. So you can find it at drjohnlaronce.com, right? I think you’re going to have a link. I do have a

01:00:15 Karen Martel link. Yes. And I’m going to put that link in the show notes everybody. So you can go check it out. Thank you very much for coming on the show. And I really look forward to meeting you in person and having some of these very interesting treatments. Yes, Karen, thanks. Thanks for having me. I can’t wait to see you.